‘The Feminist Agenda Is Wildly Popular’: Celinda Lake on the Political Power of Feminist Voters
Pollster and leading Democratic strategist Celinda Lake has been examining the data on women and feminist voters for decades. I talked to her about what Americans really want. (Spoiler alert: It’s not Project 2025.)
Celinda Lake is a leading political strategist and pollster whose work has moved the needle on feminist issues like gay marriage and minimum wage increases and helped elect women like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) and Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In conjunction with the Feminist Majority Foundation (the publisher of Ms.), Lake and her firm, Lake Research Partners, also identified “the feminist factor” in 2012—the voting bloc of self-described feminists whose values shape their political choices.
As part of the first episode of the new Ms. Studios podcast Looking Back, Moving Forward, Lake talked to Ms. consulting editor Carmen Rios about the growing power of women and feminist voters, what she thinks feminist lawmakers need to do to face this moment, and the future the data shows voters actually want.
Lake is joined in the first episode of the new series by SheThePeople founder Aimee Allison, New Mexico state Sen. Angel Charley, RepresentWomen founder Cynthia Richie Terrell, and professors and experts in gender, politics and the law Julie C. Suk and Jennifer M. Piscopo. Together, we explore the promise of a truly representative democracy—and the lessons feminist history offers for how we can advance a feminist future.
Make sure to like, follow and subscribe to Looking Back, Moving Forward today so you won’t miss a second of the conversations and revelations to come. And be sure to keep an eye out for more bonus content from every episode in the podcast portal and here on the Ms. website!
This interview has been edited and re-organized for clarity and length.
Carmen Rios: Ellie Smeal was the first to identify the gender gap in 1980, and over 30 years later, you and Feminist Majority Foundation identified the feminist factor. Based on what you’ve observed in that time, what impact have women and feminists and the feminist movement had on U.S. politics?
Celinda Lake: Women have, starting in 1980, emerged as a separate force in terms of voting, in terms of turnout, in terms of running as candidates. We’ve seen a general increase—we’re constantly breaking barriers and breaking records—but many of us would like to hurry history and would like to not see it just be incremental gains. Barbara Mikulski had the best statement when she said: ‘I’m a 20-year overnight success.’
It’s really, really been disappointing to many of us that we still don’t have a woman president and that it looks so hard to do. Now, after two of our very best women running, there is such a ridiculous conclusion in many people’s minds that ‘America’s just not ready to elect a woman,’ which is really, really frustrating.
My own goal is to see, in 2028, two women run and then we’ll have a woman president. That was how Mexico got its first woman president, who seems to be standing up very effectively to Trump, or at least more effectively than almost anybody else.
There are feminist men as well as feminist women, and what’s really interesting is that, in our most recent data, you see 49 percent of people describing themselves as feminists. When you describe what feminism is, 57 percent describe themselves as feminists. There is a big gender gap: Without it being described, 35 percent of men and 60 percent of women describe themselves as feminists; when you describe it, 50 percent of men and 63 percent of women describe themselves.
The description was, “a feminist is a person who believes in the political, economic and social equality of the sexes.” Then they’re asked, “do you consider yourself a feminist or not?”
People think that feminism is a dirty word. In fact, it’s a very strong word. Particularly for progressives and Democrats—feminism is highly correlated with voting for Democrats. Half of Independents consider themselves feminists; when you describe it, a third of Republicans and 83 percent of Democrats do. Our voters consider themselves feminists. It is a very quiet movement out there that is really underestimated.
Everybody thinks that the ERA [Equal Rights Amendment] is an old issue. In the most recent data, you have 61 percent of the voters saying that Biden should have adopted the ERA as the 28th Amendment, and you have 62 percent of the voters voting for the ERA in New York. When voters have a chance to express their views, they want the ERA.
Women really want government to be a help for their families. … Men think it’s a good day when government hasn’t done anything bad to you.
Celinda Lake
We work for the attorney general of Illinois, who, in his last campaign, ran ads supporting a pregnant person’s right to make their own decisions about abortion, and the ERA. He is a strong believer in the ERA, but it also tested very well in his polling—and he won solidly with that message.
Rios: There’s all this data showing how popular pro-choice positions are with voters, how popular feminism is, how popular the ERA is—and yet we have this president, right now, insisting that he has this mandate for the change he wants to make because he won the popular vote. What would you argue, having really looked at that data and done that research, is the real mandate for change right now in U.S. politics?
Lake: In reality, there was a mandate for change, and unfortunately, the progressives and the Democrats did not message change very well. We seemed to be defending the status quo. We seemed out of touch on the economy. And this was not a 107-day problem, or a three-month problem, or even a two-year problem. It’s been brewing for 20 years, and we have a fundamental economic brand problem that we have to get fixed.
We also had turnout issues. People were sick to death of the lesser of two evils. They were sick to death of not having things delivered, and they wanted change, and they did a Hail Mary.
Many people were skeptical, particularly at the end.In 2016, people were incredibly skeptical that Trump was antiabortion, and I moderated some of the last focus groups in Michigan, which you’ll remember Democrats lost in 2016, and I was talking to women over 50 who were all pro-abortion, or pro-choice, and I said, “Donald Trump wants to defund Planned Parenthood,” and they laughed at me. I said, “I can show you the newspaper clip on CNN where he says I’m going to defund Planned Parenthood,” and this one woman stood up in the focus group and said, “he’s probably paid for three abortions at Planned Parenthood, there’s no way he’s defunding Planned Parenthood.” Right after Roe was overturned, people thought, ‘I never thought it would happen, but now, I see it did.’
But then, at the end of the campaign, he worked very hard to try to muffle his position on abortion. A lot of people, including a lot of young women decided ‘I can vote for the initiative, I can protect it in my state, and I’m going to vote for the economy nationally,’ and that was very damaging for Democrats.
People also do not believe that Elon Musk is antiabortion. They think he’s too modern, too educated to be antiabortion. So, we just had a really uphill battle, and it was very frustrating.
I’m from Montana, and I’m a big angler, and we say, ‘You have to keep the line taut, but you have to let it play out a little bit to catch the really big fish.’
They’re flooding us now. They’re doing so many things. We have to pick some moments, and we have to define ourselves in our proactive agenda—and then, we have to stand up and fight.
What is the feminist agenda? Wherever you measure it, it is wildly, wildly popular. … Feminist issues are equal pay. Men and women are adamantly in favor of it. … Democrats, Republicans and Independents want to spend more at the state and federal level on children’s programs—not less.
Celinda Lake
Rios: How did the gender gap and the feminist factor show up in 2024? I know you said this has been brewing for a long time. Are there patterns that we need to pay attention to as we build, as we mobilize, and as we work to redefine the movements that we’re building?
Lake: There was a big gender gap—but it closed at the end, in part, because men stayed in their position, but women receded a little bit: particularly married women.Trump made gains across every age and gender gap group except women over 65.
Interestingly, seniors, who were some of the hardest on Vice President Harris, actually ended up being some of her bigger defenders, and they were very careful in targeting women on kitchen table economics. We seemed out of touch, and I don’t think we had an aggressive enough plan. People also wanted change.
The number-one statement that people remembered was Harris saying that she would not do anything differently than Biden, but of course, she had a lot of different proposals. That was just an unfortunate interview. She did a spectacular job in 107 days. I mean, we couldn’t have asked for more, but voters were voting for change, and now, a lot of women were influenced by the men in their lives.
One of the things that we have to get going is we have to get women more energized, more confident in their opinions. Men will forward everything online and just pummel the women in their lives with misinformation and disinformation. Women don’t want to divide people. They don’t want to be confrontational. They doubt their own expertise. They wonder if what they’re sending is really true.
And we have to get women better information. We have to get women to start circulating things. Over a third of women say they get their information from friends and family. We have to get our opinions in those friends and family channels.
One of the efforts that has been really good at doing that is Galvanize, which has targeted a long-term relationship with women, and by newsletter and moderated conversations and news you can use. InUnion has also done that with women who are sympathetic to unions, with giving them news they can use as well as,real facts and encouraging them to check the facts. Don’t just believe it. Look for the sources. Fund for Feminist Majority has put out a lot of voting records. It’s gotten a lot of information out to college-educated women, but we’re behind in this game.
We’ve got to do much more of that. We’ve got to take that on steroids. [The other side,] they don’t care about facts. They believe in alternative facts. They’ve got a lot of channels. They’re funding their channels aggressively. They have a lot of disinformation. They have Russia behind them, and we’re trying to catch up.
Rios: It’s so unfortunate to think that women having media literacy, being skeptical of the information that they’re seeing, wanting to be polite and respectful, is actually a drawback. Instead, the political culture is one where if the information is salacious and if the headline is clickbait-worthy, then it’s going to have traction, just because it serves that narrative that people are trying to purpose.
The latest data that you’ve seen on women voters, on feminist voters, and just maybe on voters in general — what does it tell us about how Americans feel about feminist issues and that kind of change and also how they feel about Project 2025 and what might be coming?
Lake: What are feminist issues? Feminist issues are equal pay. Men and women are adamantly in favor of it, and everybody believes that women are not paid the same as men, and they think it’s bad for families. Men think it’s bad. Blue-collar men think it’s bad for families, and they think it is massively undercalculated—because if you’re paid less, your Social Security check is less, your 401K benefits are less. You can run it through any financial situation.
Ever since Dobbs, every state in the country is 10 points more pro-abortion than it was before Dobbs. Every single state. The storytelling has been incredibly powerful, and people are really upset.
The newest data just came out that Black women’s maternal health is the one area that has not improved. When we were doing work on structural racism, Black women’s maternal health was the single best example of that in people’s minds. They thought: Something is structurally very wrong here. There’s no other explanation.
So, what are feminist issues? As you go on and on and on, women’s issues, feminist issues, are every issue, everybody’s issues. We are about to release a study that will show that people … Democrats, Republicans and Independents want to spend more at the state and federal level on children’s programs—not less. People want in-home healthcare.
So, what is the feminist agenda? Wherever you measure it, it is wildly, wildly popular.
We have to pick some moments, and we have to define ourselves in our proactive agenda — and then, we have to stand up and fight.
Celinda Lake
A lot of things that we talk about, like social and emotional learning, have become very polarized topics. Then when you say to people, ‘That’s mental health, that’s teaching kids confidence,’ people are like, ‘yeah, we definitely need more of that.’ DEI, which has just been pilloried, when you say our kids need to be in more diverse environments to be competitive in a global economy, people are like, ‘yeah, I’m all for diversity.’
When you say that schools that take vouchers don’t have to accept any child, only the public schools agree to accept every child, the private schools do not, and they can pick and choose, and they don’t have to accept children who are differently abled, that is appalling to voters. ‘If you want to do that, that’s fine, but do it on your own money, that’s not what our public tax dollars should be spent on.’
So, time and time again, these issues are being recast, and the public is very progressive and very feminist, but we don’t have enough voices, we don’t have enough courage, we don’t have enough people standing up. In many ways, it will be up to the younger women, who really have such a clarity about these issues and are so clear about reproductive health, are so clear about diversity, are so clear about the economic barriers to their generation.
Feminist issues, however we define them, are doing quite well. What we don’t have is we don’t have enough of them out front. We don’t have enough leaders taking them on, and there are just too many of our leaders that are silenced, right now, because they don’t understand what happened, and what voters want is for you to stand up, be for change, propose a positive vision, get out there, stand up and fight.
Rios: It’s difficult to deal with the reality that the numbers are there. It’s the messaging that wasn’t there, that something about the narrative could lead people who are majority pro-choice to vote for someone who’s so virulently anti-choice, or allows people who care about equal pay to vote for someone who’s trying to weaken the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. It’s so frustrating to think that the data bears out that people voted for a change they don’t actually want, and now we all have to organize to try to stop it from happening.
Lake: What’s so interesting, too, in the data, is people are still giving Trump a lot of credit for getting things done, bringing about change, and direct action. They’re kind of overwhelmed by everything that’s happening, and a lot of times, the press is not even pointing to the things that are most important.
People feel very disempowered. They don’t know what they can do, and we have to propose more actions. Voting, obviously, the off-term elections are going to be extremely important. People want to take economic actions, and as people said, you know, ‘I’m not going to give up on Amazon, and I’m not going to boycott Amazon.’ I, personally, do boycott Amazon, but people would agree to not buy anything for a day on Amazon. That would be a shock felt around the world to have that kind of clout.
We have to think about more kinds of action. I’ve been involved in a lot of Eastern European freedom fights, and of course, it’s tragic, what’s happening there, as well, but if only 3.5 percent of the population takes action, it overturns authoritarian regimes. We have to remember that. That’s a lot of people, but it’s not 50 percent. It’s 3.5 percent.
Rios: What would you say the data or the story bears out about how women’s political lives changed over 50 years?
Lake: There’s recognition that we are our own voter. We make up our own minds. There’s recognition that independent voting is grounded in a very profound sense of a different role for government.
Women really want government to be a help for their families. They believe that they could depend on a social safety net program. Men think it’s a good day when the government hasn’t done anything bad to you.
We’ve done some hysterical focus groups, college-educated husbands and wives in two adjacent rooms, about Social Security. The wives would say, ‘I know my husband over there is saying just give me the Social Security money, I’ll invest it, and I tell him, honey, you take your money out, but don’t take my money out.’ And sure enough, the husband over there was saying, ‘Just give me the money, I can invest it better, I can make more money.’
The role of government is different in the two genders.
Feminist issues, however we define them, are doing quite well. What we don’t have is we don’t have enough of them out front. We don’t have enough leaders taking them on.
Celinda Lake
We now have a critical mass of women’s voices. It’s been through incremental gains, but we’ve got to gain more. We’re gaining now with women of color. We’re gaining now with LGBTQ women, but we need more. We’re still really at a quarter, not 50 percent. We know that when women are over a third of a body, a legislative body, different legislation gets introduced, and there’s more that gets done. We’re having women in leadership in all kinds of positions, whether it’s CEOs, whether it’s generals, admirals, coast guard heads, labor leaders. It’s been a hard road.
These women have really put up with incredible odds and overcome incredible barriers to get there, and what’s really important is that we need to have more economic power, and we need to have a woman president. We’re not just electing someone because she’s a woman. If you like a woman general, you can have her. If you like a woman CEO, you can have her. And if you like a woman governor of a state, you can have her. If you like a woman head of a labor union, you can have her. We’re not talking about just voting for her because she’s a woman—but it’s about time we had women’s leadership and women’s example.
Rios: I love that. What changes do you think we will see, hopefully, aside from a woman president, in the next 50 years?
Lake: I was sitting with a bunch of my colleagues and clients, all of whom have daughters 8 to 17, talking, reflecting on what was going on. It’s easy to be exhausted, but I know I felt: We cannot leave this country in this shape for those girls. We cannot.
I don’t have any children of my own, but I have 12 godchildren. I took one of my goddaughters to Disney—and of course, we didn’t take her to Mickey Mouse. I’m so bad. I took her to the presidential pavilion. ‘Don’t you want to see the presidents?’ And she’s like, ‘Well, we kind of wanted to see Bo Peep, but okay, the presidents.’
And then she’s looking at the presidents, and she goes: ‘where are the girls?’ And I looked at her, and I said, ‘yeah, where are the girls?’ Let’s go see Bo Peep. I want a world where the next generation of godchildren doesn’t go to Disney and say where are the girls, in whatever the roles are.
